Timeline for Are there any dialects of modern Spanish which preserve a phonemic distinction between b and v?
Current License: CC BY-SA 3.0
12 events
| when toggle format | what | by | license | comment | |
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| Sep 29, 2018 at 14:26 | vote | accept | Some_Guy | ||
| Sep 29, 2018 at 14:26 | |||||
| Apr 4, 2018 at 18:34 | comment | added | DGaleano | Thanks @guifa for you explanation. FYI the map was on the main page of the referenced site. Here's the link orbilat.com/Languages/Spanish-Ladino/index.html | |
| Apr 3, 2018 at 16:00 | comment | added | user0721090601 | @Dgaleano I don't see a map on ukemi's answer. But in Spain, the difference is not phonemic and even if it were, it's by pure interference from, e.g., Catalonian. The letter S (and Z in Latin America) in Spanish may be pronounced variably as [s], [z], [h], or even elided with or without lengthening the previous vowel [ø] ~ [:ø], but everyone recognizes it as /s/, but we don't say that Spanish distinguishes the [s] and [z] sound. In Ladino, the situation is quite different (and so its orthography is different), but whether we should consider it alongside modern Spanish is another question. | |
| Apr 3, 2018 at 15:32 | comment | added | DGaleano | I don'r get it. I thought that in hispanoamerica we pronounce the same the s,z,c and the b,v but in Spain you pronounce them different. The new answer from @ukemi shows a reference that has a map that supports that in Spain v and b are different. Is it wrong? | |
| Jan 10, 2017 at 14:10 | comment | added | user0721090601 | @pablodf76 Indeed, /b/ is normally [β] (even more specifically, [β̞]), but I figured that'd be overkill for the answer. I'm aware of the insistence by some to distinguish. I believe that was most common in the Rioplatense area, although it of course wasn't grounded in anything natural. I hope those same professors insisted on aspirating the H in words like albahaca but not in words like huevo :-) | |
| Jan 10, 2017 at 13:58 | comment | added | pablodf76 | On a separate note: depending on where you look, you will find Spanish speakers who insist b and v are to be pronounced differently, only "everybody speaks badly". This is a form of hypercorrection which was taught in schools. Not a quarter of a century ago I was still told by an elderly professor that v is to be called "ve labiodental" and pronounced as such. | |
| Jan 10, 2017 at 13:54 | comment | added | pablodf76 | Actually /b/ is [β] (voiced bilabial fricative) between vowels and after some consonants, which of course makes it even easier for it to turn into [v], or even into an approximant. Spanish /b/ is only [b] initially and after stops and /m/, I think, though that may depend on dialect and idiolect. | |
| Jan 10, 2017 at 12:46 | history | edited | user0721090601 | CC BY-SA 3.0 |
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| Jan 10, 2017 at 12:26 | history | edited | user0721090601 | CC BY-SA 3.0 |
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| Jan 10, 2017 at 12:24 | comment | added | user0721090601 | Yes, that is correct. The phoneme is /b/, which is realized as [b] or [v] (I should correct my conventions in the answer) | |
| Jan 10, 2017 at 12:02 | comment | added | Some_Guy | Are you saying that there is no dialect of Spanish with separate /b/ /v/ phonemes, that there is just a single phoneme b/v which is realised as /b/ or /v/ depending on phonetic rules? i.e. /b/ and /v/ in all dialects of Spanish are allophones of the same phoneme, never two distinct phonemes. Just want to check I understood you. | |
| Jan 10, 2017 at 11:35 | history | answered | user0721090601 | CC BY-SA 3.0 |