14

I have heard many times the use of the infinitive instead of the imperative in Spanish with the verb "ir". For example:

  • Si me queréis, *irse (Instead of: Si me queréis, váyanse) [Famous quote of artist Lola Flores]
  • *Ir yendo (Instead of: Id yendo)
  • *Iros ya (Instead of: Idos ya)

In Spain I have heard this error so often that for me "iros" even sounds much better than "idos" though I know that it's an error.

Does this problem happen in any other regions of the world? Does it also happen with other verbs?

Improve this question
5
  • 6
    In latin america.. "idos" and "iros" they both sound awful. We simply say "vayan" (plural) "vaya" (singular)
    – pleasedontbelong
    Nov 18, 2011 at 14:05
  • That first one's corrected form should be Si me queréis, idos, since querer is conjugated for vosotros (or old vos).
    – user0721090601
    Jun 23, 2014 at 6:17
  • To me, the popular error in this case sounds better, and funnier, than the correct form. Using the infinitive on that construction pushes the concept (and thus the intention behind it) a little bit farther, and I find it perfectly acceptable in idiomatic terms (and revealing, at the same time, of a certain social belonging in the Lola Flores "¡IRSE!" case, which is quite gipsy or southern spanish). "Iros de aquí" sounds mostly fine and is constantly used. "Idos de aquí" has probably a slight twist of a TOO correct and lireray form for many people, but it will be processed just fine by everyone
    – Peanuts
    Jul 19, 2019 at 16:16
  • On the other hand, I would never say something different "sounds awful". Spanish is a rich language and it can sound different depending on the region, but "awful"? I'd say it sounds "different", or even "cool". What if I said (for example) this or that mexican spanish expression sounds "awful"? Would their speakers find it acceptable? Same the other way around. So respect and appreciation, as well as recognition, are primary, even here (or specially here).
    – Peanuts
    Jul 19, 2019 at 16:17
  • From my experience of spanish speakers in the Basque country, 'marchados' is ALWAYS used instead of 'idos' and 'iros'. I know this is not the case across all of Spain though
    – camarones95
    Jul 23, 2019 at 19:49

4 Answers 4

Reset to default
-3

Only Spain. Actually you're talking about "Castellano" which is spoken in Spain. Latin America Spanish doesn't use second person plural familiar form of the verbs.

In both Spain and Latin America, the informal, second person singular verb form is tú (you). For example:

“¿Quieres (tú) venir a la fiesta conmigo? Would you like to come to the party with me?”

However, when you’re talking to a group of people, that’s when things get more complicated. In Spain, you would use the second person plural verb form, vosotros, so you’d say:

“¿Queréis (vosotros) ir a la fiesta conmigo?”

But in Latin America, the vosotros verb form is simply not used. There they use the third person plural verb form with ustedes instead, which would be:

“¿Quieren (ustedes) ir a la fiesta conmigo?”

Improve this answer
5
  • 11
    It's not really so helpful to use the words "Castellano" or "Castillian" here since that's the usual Spanish word for "Spanish" in some Latin American countries, notably Argentina. Also it's a bit ambiguous whether it's for setting Castile apart from the rest of Spain or Spain apart from the rest of the Spanish speaking world. I believe the RAE's official position is that both español and castellano are equivalent.
    – hippietrail
    Nov 18, 2011 at 12:31
  • 7
    It looks like a good answer but then I'm not sure you're addressing the OP's points about the imperative and infinitive but instead you're talking about the second person present indicatives. I think the question might not be clear enough maybe??
    – hippietrail
    Nov 18, 2011 at 12:37
  • @hippietrail: Regarding your first comment, you should not forget that RAE is mostly composed of people from a predominantly Castillian culture, which historically has been dominant on other cultures in what today is Spain. In fact, there are many people who don't agree with RAE on this issues. You cannot ignore this when assessing RAE's position on language.
    – CesarGon
    Feb 5, 2012 at 15:47
  • @CesarGon: I wholeheartedly agree. I'm not a big fan of the historical RAE but it seems to comprise people with much more open minds in recent years now. Nevertheless Spanish does have an academy so we have to recognize that though I do invite people to contest their official positions. On the subject of castellano we have a question too: Is there a difference between “español” and “castellano”?
    – hippietrail
    Feb 5, 2012 at 16:34
  • @hippietrail: Glad that you agree. I just left a comment to your answer to the question that you mention which, unfortunately, is not very positive, I am afraid. I hope that, at least, it sheds some light.
    – CesarGon
    Feb 6, 2012 at 8:45
12

TL;DR

The "problem" is so extended that RAE finally decided to consider that that's actually the way people speak, making it a valid version for the imperative.

Long answer

To update this question, even if at the moment of writing these lines the form iros might be not officially accepted yet, the RAE has informally announced that it will do so.

It is true that RAE's rules stated

Las formas de imperativo propias de este verbo son ve (tú) e id (vosotros) y, para los usos pronominales, vete (tú) e idos (vosotros): «¡Callaos los dos, callaos, y cuanto antes idos a la viña a hacer lo vuestro!» (Melcón Catalina [Esp. 1995]). Debe evitarse, para el imperativo singular, el uso de la forma vulgar ves y, para el imperativo plural, el uso del infinitivo iros y el de la forma arcaica íos

Recently, Arturo Pérez-Reverte gave some heads up about this change due to an enquiry through his Twitter account

enter image description here

After some discussion RAE just accepted iros, since nobody used idos nor íos. [Iros] Can now be used without feeling ashamed. It will be official this Fall [2017]

Due to the mild controvesry generated, Pérez-Reverte clarified later that both forms iros and idos are now considered correct.

enter image description here

Idos is the correct form but iros will be registered as o habitual use.

The RAE acts as notary for the usage of the language, not as police.

Improve this answer
3
  • Yo me pregunto donde se usan íos? Apple latin america?
    – user5389726598465
    Oct 27, 2017 at 1:42
  • @user135711 nadie lo usa, es forma antigua
    – user0721090601
    Oct 27, 2017 at 1:47
  • @guifa, de hecho ahora recuerdo la regla que he olvidado. Hay una regla para eliminar la "d" antes de "os"
    – user5389726598465
    Oct 27, 2017 at 1:49
8

The use of the infinitive when an imperative is required is a common error that unfortunately nowadays is spreading all around, and it happens with all verbs in imperative form in colloquial speech in Spain and other countries where the form vosotros is used in enclitic form (-os) with an imperative.

From RAE FAQ

It is not considered proper, in careful speech, the use of the infinitive instead of the imperative to address an order to a plural second person as is often done in colloquial speech:

No se considera correcto, en el habla esmerada, el uso del infinitivo en lugar del imperativo para dirigir una orden a una segunda persona del plural, como se hace a menudo en el habla coloquial:

  • ¡×Venir aquí ahora mismo, granujas! (Venid)
  • ×Poneros el pijama y ×dormiros cuanto antes. (Poneos/dormíos)

It is only valid to use the infinitive with imperative value addressing a singular or plural second person when it is preceded by the preposition a, proper use of the colloquial spoken language.

Solo es válido el empleo del infinitivo con valor de imperativo dirigido a una segunda persona del singular o del plural cuando aparece precedido de la preposición a, uso propio de la lengua oral coloquial.

  • ¡Tú, a callar!
  • Niños, a dormir

The same for ir. Use of iros, irse,... when used as imperative, is a mistake.

Also, every verb in imperative loses the last -d when adding the enclitic -os.

  • poned + vosotros = poned + os = poneos

with the exception of ir, which does not lose the final -d (idos). Even then, many people use the arcaic and incorrect form ×íos (the correct imperative without the final -d by comparison with other imperatives when using the enclitic -os).

There is a complete page dedicated to the verb ir in RAE archives. This is an excerpt:

Las formas de imperativo propias de este verbo son ve (tú) e id (vosotros) y, para los usos pronominales, vete (tú) e idos (vosotros)

Debe evitarse, para el imperativo singular, el uso de la forma vulgar ×ves y, para el imperativo plural, el uso del infinitivo ×iros y el de la forma arcaica ×íos.

The proper imperative forms of this verb are ve (tú) and id (vosotros) and, for the pronominal uses, vete (tú) and idos (vosotros)

It should be avoided, for the singular imperative, to use the vulgar form ×ves and, for the plural imperative, to use the infinitive ×iros and the *archaic form* ×íos.

Improve this answer
2

Does this problem happen in any other regions of the world?

These conjugations will only appear in dialects which use vosotros, so that limits us to the Spanish of peninsular Spain (and possibly also Equatoguinean and Filipino Spanish).

Does it also happen with other verbs?

I suspect very very rarely. Given that the terminal -d is lost when attaching the enclitic pronoun os to the positive vosotros imperative, I can only imagine the retention of a -d and its subsequent lenition to -r- occurring in other monosyllabic -ir verbs, i.e. huir, luir, muir, gruir, fruir and possibly oír, reír, freír.

E.g.

Amantes engañadores,
huiros de mi presencia,
no perturbeis mi reposo
...
y con todo vuestro amor
huiros de mi presencia.

¡Reíros todos vosotros que le habéis nombrado para ese puesto!
¡Reíros de él, los que tenéis de su virtud...

Note also that the common form iros is, as of July 2017, accepted by the RAE:

• xx/xx/2005 DPD
• 05/02/2009 idos, imperativo
• 23/07/2010 marchaos, idos
• 18/07/2017 Nota sobre la aceptación de iros como forma de imperativo de 2.a pers. plural
• 18/07/2017 «Iros» será correcto para la RAE, pero con matices
• 25/07/2017 Sobre «idos» e «iros»
• 17/02/2018 idos, mejor que iros

Improve this answer

Your Answer

By clicking “Post Your Answer”, you agree to our terms of service and acknowledge that you have read and understand our privacy policy and code of conduct.

Not the answer you're looking for? Browse other questions tagged or ask your own question.